A year and a half ago, when I first heard about Barack Obama, I got excited. I really wanted to support him. An evangelical Christian told me Obama was prolife. I didn’t care that Obama was a Democrat. I wanted a pro-life, pro-environment, pro-racial equality president who took seriously our need to care for the poor and defend the needy.
Granted, I also wanted someone who wasn’t a New Age anti-industry activist with a “Meat is Murder” bumper sticker. I wanted someone who is committed to national defense, but knows when not to go on offense. I wanted someone who doesn’t hear every Douglas fir screaming when it’s cut down.
But, frankly, I relished the opportunity to show I wasn’t a lockstep Republican. I was, and still am, tired of the Pat Robertson sort of Republicanism that supported proabortion-Republican-who-publicly-cheated-on-his-wife Rudy Giuliani because he's the only guy who could beat Hillary. (This was a non-prophetic endorsement on too many levels to count.)
That Barack Obama is an African-American was a real plus to me, and not for superficial reasons. I believed it could help further the vision of Martin Luther King in my favorite speech of the modern era, in which he said, “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” I get tears in my eyes just hearing that speech in my head.
I knew from the first time I heard him speak that Obama was cool. And if the candidate I supported, for reasons of substance, also happened to be cool, that would be a nice plus. I coach high school tennis, and I like it when the kids like me. And hey, my generation invented the word cool! (Of course it also invented the word groovy, but....).
Then the sad day came. I checked out Obama's actual position on abortion and I was demoralized. I found that in every single vote related to the issue he's favored abortion, its legality and even the killing of children who survive abortion.
But Obama is savvy. He wants to attract young voters, including young evangelical Christians who are sort-of-prolife. He knows to say that he favors reducing or limiting abortions. Which is like limiting rather than criminalizing murder and rape and kidnapping and slavery. A candidate could say “I’m personally opposed to rape,” while he has a 100% voting record favoring the legality of rape. And he could say he favors limiting or reducing the number of rapes. But if he actually supports the legality of the hideous crime of rape, discerning people would see through his rhetoric of rape-reduction.
When I discovered Obama was an all-out defender of legalized child-killing, I was disappointed beyond words. And I knew that in the next election, I was not going to get to be cool.
Well, here we are, and I have been asked what I think about the evangelical brothers and sisters who support Obama despite his uncompromising pro-choice stance. I have specifically been asked about Don Miller, author of Blue Like Jazz, because Don prayed at the Democratic Convention and has been widely quoted as a supporter of Obama.
On a previous blog I wrote about Obama and McCain, Leanne left in her comment a link to an interview with Don Miller, concerning his support for Barack Obama. (I’m glad she did.) I recommend that you hear directly from Don, who is prolife. Perhaps you should read that interview now so you really hear what he's saying.
I have hesitated to say anything publicly, but there's so much conversation that has been generated by Don's endorsement of Obama, I think I need to. By the way, as soon as I post this, I'm going to send a link to this blog to Don to tell him if he wants to respond I'll publish anything he has to say in a follow-up blog. (This is the same morning I posted this blog, and I just got an email response from Don; I've just deleted a few things that he thought were unfair, though my overall thoughts remain the same.)
First, Don is a friend of mine, and a good brother. He is sharp, kind-hearted, interesting and genuinely funny. He is also sincere. I enjoy hanging out with him, though I don't get to as much as I'd like, four times I think in the last couple of years. By the way, I was one of the pastors at (and am still part of) the church in the suburbs he went to, which he says in Blue Like Jazz was like "going to church at The GAP." I got a good laugh out of that and many other things he said.
A while ago, Don and I had coffee (something we're one on) and talked about things mostly that we agreed about, and some on which we disagreed. You can disagree and still be friends and brothers and Christ-followers, you know.
Don and I agreed that day at Starbucks that many Republican Christians have been used by the Republican Party. We agree that there are other important issues besides abortion and homosexual marriage. (Again, I repeat, Don is not proabortion, he is prolife; he says he has stated his disagreement with Obama on this issue, and I believe him.) Among those common concerns we have are racial justice and concern for the poor, and stewarding the environment. Of course, not all with the same concerns agree on which programs and policies are, in the long run, most helpful in furthering these righteous causes.
Don and I agreed that day that Christians should be first and foremost followers of Jesus, not political parties.
I went on record long ago as being unwilling to vote for a Republican nominee if he was not willing to stand up for the right to life of innocent children. (Don tells me that he too doesn't always vote with his party.) The prolife statement in the Republican platform is probably the most God-honoring thing it says, and if there's a Republican politician who doesn't hold to it, as Senator Bob Packwood didn't here in Oregon, there is no way I'll ever vote for him. Packwood never got my vote even though some Christian Republicans told me I should support him because he was conservative, at least until he was exposed for his sexual conduct. (Click here to compare what the Republican and Democratic Party platforms have to say about abortion.)
John McCain wasn’t my first choice for president. But at least McCain's a hero, he suffered for his country and fellow soldiers. And at least he thinks innocent children shouldn’t be slaughtered, and has consistently voted that way. And he's chosen a running mate who not only professes to be prolife but lived it out by valuing a precious Down Syndrome child that 80% of people would have aborted. McCain and Palin are far from perfect. But I believe they would honestly stick up for the most oppressed and violated people group in this nation, unborn children.
Of course, these days it’s especially not cool to support a Republican, even if he would defend innocent children, because Republicans are part of the party of George Bush, someone who is hated by cool people. (Nobody mentions that the Republican Party was the party of Lincoln, that opposed slavery; they were hated for that too.)
I am deeply concerned about the one, two or possibly three Supreme Court justices to be appointed in the next presidential term. If you listen to the candidates, it's obvious that McCain/Palin would make a concerted effort to choose justices likely to reverse Roe v. Wade and it is equally obvious that Obama/Biden would choose justices most likely to uphold Roe v. Wade.
So, does God care about who his children vote for? In many cases, with not much difference between them, I doubt it. But here's what he says about the needy and afflicted who have no one to help them and are on the brink of death:
"For God will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death. He will rescue them from oppression and violence, for precious is their blood in his sight." (Psalm 72:12-14)
The blood of weak and needy unborn children is precious in God’s sight. Please don't tell me abortion isn't the only issue. Of course it isn't. Treatment of the Jews wasn’t the only issue in 1940 Germany. Buying, selling and owning black people wasn’t the only issue in the United States of 1850. Nonetheless, both were the dominant moral issues of their day. Make no mistake about it. In our own day if we support a candidate who defends abortion, who is dedicated to that cause, we are supporting the killing of children. Yes, even if he’s the coolest candidate to come along in decades.
We will stand before the judgment seat of Christ for our decisions, and a vote is a decision in which we assume responsibility for the known beliefs and moral positions of the candidate.
This is not speculation, it is not a spin, it is demonstrable fact: Barack Obama IS committed to continuing the legalized killing of unborn children in this country.
Some Christians claim otherwise. But in his July 17, 2007 speech to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund Obama said,
"We know that a woman's right to make a decision about how many children she wants to have and when— without government interference—is one of the most fundamental freedoms we have in this country. . . . I have worked on this issue for decades now. I put Roe at the center of my lesson plan on reproductive freedom when I taught constitutional law. . . So, you know where I stand. . . The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do."
If you don't know about the Freedom of Choice Act, it was written by the most radical proabortion activists because they saw informed consent and parental consent laws being passed at the state level. They wanted something powerful that would dismantle anything that could serve to reduce abortions through requiring that people be told the truth before an abortion or before their sixteen year old, who can't be given an aspirin without their permission, can have an abortion.
Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in America. Obama standing in front of them and promising he's 100% on their side is the equivalent of a presidential candidate 160 years ago addressing an assembly of the owners of the slave ships, and saying, “If you elect me, the first thing I will do is sign an act that will insure slaves won’t be freed, and that nullifies any and all voter-approved state legislation that restricts slavery.” (And sadly, yes, even hearing this, some Christians would have campaigned for and voted for him.)
Now, “first thing” means first thing, right? So before helping the poor and protecting the environment and addressing the economy and national defense, what is President Obama going do? He's going to assure that abortion stays legal and that the numbers are NOT reduced, by signing an act that will devastate decades of work at the state level by the prolife movement. Requirements of parental notification and informed consent and bans on partial birth abortions? History, if Obama has his way.
When Obama made this promise, he was either lying or telling the truth. If he was lying, he has a serious character problem. If we can’t trust him to do this, why trust him to follow through on any other promise, including those for which evangelicals are supporting him?
Ironically, however, if Obama was not lying, then he has a far worse character problem. Why? Because he is committing himself to oppose the rights of unborn children to live. I would rather he be a liar than that he be the defender of the killing of weak and vulnerable children, the orphans and fatherless.
I think he is sincere and likable, but on this matter, a matter of enormous significance, it is no exaggeration to say he is standing in defiance of the Creator. (A Creator whose blessing we should not dare ask if we defend the legalized killing of the children He creates.)
It is certainly a bad thing to promise something good, then not carry out your promise, as some Republican politicians have done in the prolife arena. (But though I don't always agree with him, George Bush—dare I even bring up his name?—did appoint two Supreme Court judges who have shown a respect for prolife issues.)
But it is even worse to promise something bad, something that is in fact evil—the furthering of the shedding of innocent blood—and then keep your promise.
We may want to show the world that we Christians are cool enough to support the coolest political candidate who’s come along in decades. I really wanted to. But I just can’t get past child-killing. That's a price for coolness that's just too high.
If you want to hear directly from the candidates about their positions on the shedding of the innocent blood of the unborn, check out these interviews with Rick Warren at Saddleback Church. (Below the videos I close out with some Scripture that makes God's position on this issue pretty clear).
Obama on abortion: (if you are unable to view the video, go to www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRswgN-Wf6g):
McCain on abortion: (if you are unable to view the video, to go www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PbzNGKNLE0):
God on abortion (no video, just a transcript):
"Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD." (Leviticus 18:21)
"Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance, and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed." (Deuteronomy 19:10)
"Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you." (Ezekiel 35:6)
Shedding innocent blood? Not cool.
Supporting and voting for those committed to the legalized shedding of innocent blood? You tell me.
www.randyalcorn.blogspot.com
www.epm.org
Thursday, October 16, 2008
Not Cool: Obama's Pro-abortion Stance, and Christians enabling him
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Comments:
thank you Mr. Alcorn. I appreciate this post and your bold move for an issue that IS important. I will not vote for obama for MANY reasons... the biggest issue being abortion.
I do not agree on Obama on ANY issue at all actually. He and his supporters try to convince us every single time just how much he is "for" the middle class and how relatable he is to mainstream America --- and I don't believe it for a second. Those statements are so subjective. I don't believe Obama will offer the type of help this country needs at all. It really depends on what you mean by 'for' and how you define 'help'.
I believe God would want money and resources and blessings to flow through His people, the Body, which can offer eternal and not just temporary relief.... rather than a bunch of bueracrats in washington determining how to distribute resources. I will always vote for the candidate that stands for giving more power & resources back to the people and giving less power, control and resources to the government which is no longer operating the law of God as it was designed to. I will always vote for the candidate that stands and sticks up for an ecnomic system based on individuals being free, moral agents.
God bless,
I'm openly concerned about an apparent rush toward electing a man who does not stand for life - no candidate is perfect (some so far from it one wonders how even their home town constituency keeps voting for them) but I still put pro-life first - how sad we feel a need to justify our votes, doing what is right is just that -doing the right thing. I appreciate your stand on this issue.
I am in lockstep with you on this, Randy. I felt the same way about Barack Obama at first and was willing to buck the system. No longer. I'd rather do right than be cool.
Di
I'm not cool either...if we uphold innocent life above all else, we are putting value on the most important thing ever. If we uphold innocent life we will be able to take care of our poor, our sick, our oppressed. I am scared.
Great post! Thanks for taking a stand!
I was directed to this blog by a reader of mine. I just blogged on this yesterday. The Christian community MUST speak out in every way we can for the lives of those precious little ones. We should NEVER vote for a candidate who believes it should be legal to kill a baby. I am saddened by the countless Christians who will cast their vote for Obama. It breaks my heart to think of those little ones who survive abortions that Obama has voted to deny medical care to - 4 times! That is not a candidate who values life.
Wonderful article!! You have such a gift for words. :) I linked to your article on my Facebook page and blog. Thanks for the reminder....I was almost just a little seduced by Obama's smooth talk last night during the debate.
Well, thanks for admitting you wanted to be cool. I understand what you're saying. I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that being a real Christian and being cool (by the world's standards) simply cannot and will not ever go together. Furthermore, trying to make them go together is pretty much always problematic.
I can't take any Christian seriously for one second at this point, who wants to justify voting for Obama unless they have never read the bible and are sincerely ignorant about the basics...in which case, someone needs to tell them. I don't think Don Miller has a good excuse.
I know that some Christians are actually rooting for Obama a little bit in the sense that his brazen anti-god ideas would better contrast the light and the dark in this country as opposed to someone (McCain) who is supposedly godly and would have all the Christians relieved and continuing in their complacency if he got voted in.
I can understand this line of thinking. Alas, my husband and I are most likely goin' 3rd party to become "vote wasters".
Wonderful post, Randy. I, too, have been concerned about the stance of so many Christians. I think you are so right in the fact that it comes down to some people just wanting to be "cool" and voting for the "cool" candidate. I pray people will think twice in these final few days before election.
Thank you for posting this..
Thanks Randy. I've been saying so many of the same things to fellow believers I know who do not think abortion is a big enough deal to exclude a candidate from consideration. I've put up so many posts on my blog appealing on a human rights level for these children, but have not moved any. It breaks my heart that no matter what i say or how i say it or what pictures i use, they will not jeopardize their commitment by discussing those points. I've linked to this post at my blog and at facebook, but more information from me has become noise to my friends.
To God be the glory.
God is good
jpu
Randy -
Great post. Thanks again for your bold stances for the unborn.
I did take issue with your statement: "So, does God care about who his children vote for? In many cases, I doubt it."
That doesn't seem to fit with what you wrote a few paragraphs later: "We will stand before the judgment seat of Christ for our decisions, and a vote is a decision in which we assume responsibility for the known beliefs and moral positions of the candidate."
It seems to me that if we are to do "all things to the glory of God," then God cares about "all things," which includes all votes.
So, I'm wondering, which votes do you doubt God cares about?
Once again, thanks for great post!
I love, love , love this blog post! I agree with you on the abortion issue 100% I will never stand behind a man, a party that believes in abortion. ssssttt...I like president Bush.
I think it is sad and disrespectful the way people bash and put down our President.
Anyway my point is Randy you speak for all of us who believe in the sanctity of human life. Thank you!!
Thank you for this post, Randy. If it's any consolation, I'm not "cool" either ;)
Mr. Alcorn,
Thanks very much for linking to us (The Burnside Writers Blog). As a fellow Oregonian and fan, thank you for the books you've written over the years.
I do want to point out one thing regarding Barack Obama's vote on "the killing of children who survived abortion."
My wife, who is adamantly pro-life, is a pediatrician resident at Phoenix Children's Hospital. She has pointed out repeatedly that this is a red herring. I'm paraphrasing here, so forgive me if the facts are off, but children born after only 24 weeks in the womb cannot survive, period. Even at 24 weeks, it's touch and go. Machines can keep those children alive, but at great cost, and they'll never be able to survive outside the hospital.
If it's possible for a child to survive outside the womb, doctors already do all they can to keep the child alive. Barack Obama pointed this out in his debate last night.
The point is, it's an emotional point (Obama voted to kill babies after they'd been born? WHAT?), but the cold truth of the matter is, these kids won't survive.
This is not to dismiss Barack Obama's other votes on abortion.
I found the link to your post on a blog I follow, and I'm so glad that I did! I have been really, really struggling with this election because my family and I are at opposite ends of the political spectrum this time around. Although my mom is one of the most caring and selfless people you'll meet and has a relationship with Jesus, she is staunchly supporting Obama because he "cares about middle Americans," thinks we are in an "unjust war" in Iraq, and "believes in equal rights for everyone" (to which she is referring to pro-choice rights and rights for gay couples). It saddens me to see her--and the rest of my family--succumb to moral relativism and support socialism, without even realizing that is what they are doing! I think they are just so hungry for something "different" that they believe everything. he. says. no. matter. what.
Trying to bring up discussion points has only left me feeling like the big meanie of the family, who must not care about poor people in the world or the plight of the middle class. And bringing up abortion only further alienates me because my family tells me that I must not support women's rights...
It's refreshing to hear a rational argument against Obama from someone who is not a right-wing, Planned Parenthood-bombing "crazy," which I think is what my parents picture when they hear "pro-life." I'm going to email this post to my mom because you expressed my feelings much better than I ever could! Thank you!
Wow. Thanks. I have never before actively made a bold push to influence someone elses political decisions. However, I sent a letter yesterday to EVERYONE in my address book, including my liberal Obama supporting friends, pleading with them to think on this issue. I so wish he wasn't pro-abortion. I think he has some good ideas. But I came to the conclusion I just can NOT stand up and support someone who would let an innocent child die in a wash sink because they were born, not aborted. I believe it's a long and slippery slope he stands on.
Whether one belieevs life begins at conception, as I do, or at birth as some do, Obama is saying that a human life has no value in this situation. It makes me sick.
Does Don Miller have any more to say on the topic? I've read his interview before, just wondered where his take was after your blog.
Thanks for your post Randy. I linked to this post from another christian blog (John Umland; Umblog). I've been so torn up over this election and who to vote for; struggling with Palin's obvious ethical shortfalls in her very recent past, but obviously unable to come to terms with voting for a candidate who clearly does not see the unborn child as an innocent life. I pray that the Lord will move on the hearts of his people in the days to come and let His truth be revealed in our hearts and minds. Let the Church be awakened to the reality of what an Obama admnistration in the White House will mean for the future of this country.
I am so NOT cool as well. You know this made me think to ask this question: Can we really ever expect a Democrat pro-life president to make a difference in that arena? The party will never see to it if were up for vote, but I hear what you are saying.
The blood shed must stop and humans need to quit defining life. I have wondered if the woman who unrepentantly believes in abortion feel sorrow and loss when she miscarries? Hmmm.
Thank you. I appreciate your stand as well as the honest and loving way in which you have taken it in this article.
I saw your site mentioned in comments at:
http://theheartofapastorswife.blogspot.com/
Esthermay has an absolutely sick comment on her Wed. 10/15 Post made by Obama about abortion - it's a must see.
I'm in disagreement with Obama on everything - your thoughts here are very good. Thank you.
What a detailed, honest, no-rhetoric, portrayal of a man that has literally become the “messiah” of the 21st Century. How blind have we become? Isaiah 5:20, II Corinthians 4:4.
Not sure that I can agree with your mindset a year and a half ago – the man was clearly a liberal politician his entire career, but I am absolutely on the same page with you today.
Obama’s claim that it is above his “pay-scale” to answer the “when does life begin” question is ludicrous! Frankly I’m far below Obama’s pay-scale and I can answer it with no misgivings, doubts or uncertainty because I read GOD’s WORD. Cleary, Obama does not.
The prospect of this man being allowed to appoint Supreme Court Justices is horrifying!
Your post was mentioned in the comments of my own blog and that’s how I landed here.
My hope is that if there are truly any “undecided” voters left out there in blog-world, they will be led to – and follow -- the Truth presented on your blog and many others like it.
Kindest Thought,
-esthermay
Randy,
I just wanted to say, I appreciate your treatment of this, and especially the point that it's ok to disagree on issues - I think it's important to note that a decision like this is extremely complicated, especially for a member of the general public who hears so many things it's nearly impossible to figure out all of the truth vs. propaganda, from both sides.
I agree with you that abortion is a very important issue. I also have to say, in weighing all the possible issues, that this one single issue does not trump everything else in my mind and my heart. I understand people, such as yourself, for whom it does, and I respect your point of view, because I do see that it's an important issue, and I can see that you genuinely care about it and about the people it affects.
I think it's important to at least consider, that it's not necessarily un-christian to vote for a candidate who is ok with abortion, if you strongly feel that as a candidate overall is a better option. I think it's clear that there are many other ways to respect or disrespect human life outside the issue of abortion.
Again, I want to make it clear that I really feel that abortion is a very important topic, and I don't take it lightly voting for someone who is ok with it... but in my mind it's more complicated than just the one issue.
Another thing to note regarding any candidate's voting history, is that it's important to realize that when members of congress are voting on bills, they are rarely only voting on one thing - as with the bailout bill, a whole bunch of other things were passed along with it, and everyone who voted yes to the bailout voted yes to everything else that was packaged with it. It's important to recognize that this often means someone will vote for (or against) something they might not otherwise due to the other legislation in a package. Voting record can give some indication as to overall priorities, but again I think it's important to recognize that things are often less black-and-white than we like to think. I think both of the candidates in this election so far have done a good job of exploiting this fact and pointing out things the other candidate voted for or against, without mentioning that it was packaged with a lot of other stuff that they actually agree with or support.
Anyway, all in all, I think whichever way a person votes, it's important to understand that it's almost never the case that their point of view is the only acceptable one.
(just for the record, I'm only registered Democrat because registering as Independent limits your voting ability in Oregon - I prefer not to be strictly associated with either party, because I don't agree with everything espoused by one party, or disagree with everything espoused by another - I think it's much more important to think and to vote based on individual people and issues and not simply vote for candidates or legislature based on party association)
I am a bit disappointed that you could possibly vote for Obama if he was pro-life. For the sake of argument, let's assume that Obama is pro-life.
I believe that most informed conservatives understand this election is far from a normal one. It's not even controversial that Obama is the most left of center democrat candidate to ever be nominated. It may be controversial to say he is socialist, but I am willing to argue that point. His postion on taxes, the environment, energy, education, and the role that government plays in our lives would break the bank almost immediately. His tax increase on small business alone is immoral because of the countless people that will be fired and others that will not be able to start a business due to the inability to compete and make a profit.
The only reason Obama is cool is because he is not so hot. If you are considering putting an Obama sticker on your car, you might as well have one that says "I don't think clearly".
I don't think that abortion will ever be made completely illegal in America. And even though I don't agree with Obama on this one issue he has a lot of good stands on other things. We elect these people to office to vote a certain way, obviously he's representing someone.
Randy, thank you for this well-reasoned post. I am hopeful that Miller will respond to your post, and am prayerfully hopeful that he will change his position on this. For him to do so could possibly be greatly influential for the pro-life cause among young evangelicals. Perhaps it could also be a good idea for the two of you (if you could work it out quickly) to do a friendly sit-down where you discuss this issue. To film something like that and put it online (youtube, etc.) could be really helpful to people. Just a suggestion...
Also, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on voting for strongly pro-life third party candidates. That could make for an interesting post.
To Jordon - according to current medical journals
36% of babies can survive premature birth at 24 weeks - However, serious complications are still possible.
I noticed that Jordan made the comment that babies after only 24 weeks cannot survive and if they do they are kept on machines to keep them alive.
I wanted to let him know that my best friend's son was born right at 24 weeks in the womb and not only did he survive, he was never on any life support machinery and left the hospital after 12 weeks and is now a completely normal 10 year old with no physical or mental disabilites whatsoever! So please, don't think this issue is a "red herring;" it isn't.
Randy, this blog is COOL. :) You are a careful and honest writer. I appreciate everything you had to say here.
To the person who wrote about the preemies: my son was born at 26 weeks and my nephew was born at 24 weeks, and they are both healthy, happy 7 & 9 year old boys. Preemies can live as early as 21 weeks. I knew a mom whose baby was born at 22 weeks in the NICU when we were there, and her daughter was still doing well at the preemie reunion we went to. Just thought I'd share!
Great blog. Thanks for stating so clearly your views. I agree whole-heartedly.
Randy, I think this whole issue can be addressed even by taking the (im)morality of abortion off the table. You did this, somewhat, by pointing out that Obama may have lied (a different moral issue) to Planned Parenthood.
But, Obama's record and statements on the issue of abortion cannot possibly be aligned regardless of one's stand on the issue.
Obama has told pro-lifers that he is in favor of the reduction of the number of abortions. And good grief, if folks like Miller don't beat that drum incessantly when they're excusing their support for him.
And yes, as you noted, signing the FoCA would stand in stark contrast with that claim. But that's the hypothetical future. Let's look at the real past.
When faced with the "95/10 legislation", a plan drawn up by his own party to -- wait for it -- reduce the number of abortions, Obama opposed it.
So regardless of your stance on abortion, you have to admit that Obama (and by proxy, many of his supporters) are lying. If he does post here, I'd like to hear Miller's response to that.
Meanwhile, I'll be over here clinging to my religion.
I'm glad someone is talking about this. I was so excited for Obama. The idea that we would have a president that the entire nation could be excited about and that I could support a "cool" candidate fired my imagination...until I found out where Obama stands on the most important issue. Thank you very much for your thoughts. At least God thinks were cool.
Great post. But, I just wanted to point out to Jordan who commented that a baby born after only 24 weeks will not survive. I beg to differ. I am an aunt to a very stubborn, spirited, healthy little girl who was born at a little less than 24 weeks. Don't tell me what my God can do.
Thank you for addressing the "one issue voter" label. The abortion issue trumps other issues for me, especially pocket-book issues.
Randy,
You can't just take McCain's word for it, either: according to OnTheIssues.org, he supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, and supports partial-birth abortion in "rape/life of the mother" situations.
Obama says the "born-alive" provisions were already law in Illinois, and that his votes on those bills had nothing whatsoever to do with that issue. (However, he says unequivocally that he voted against that series of bills because he feared they might work against the Roe v. Wade ruling.)
Neither candidate truly fights for the rights of the unborn. You want to vote for someone who does? Chuck Baldwin is the only candidate who fits the bill.
But hey, he's 3rd-party... so he doesn't matter. He doesn't have a chance in this "Republicans vs. Democrats" political landscape.
Kinda like the unborn.
Why is wanting to reduce the amount of permiscuity and unwanted pregnancies so quickly dismissed?
Obama is looking for common ground that we can all start a discussion from instead of fighting from opposite extremes.
Unless abortion is made illegal, isn't this the most effective stance from a prolife view?
Talking all day about abortion being immoral, unchristian, or that it should be illegal will not stop a single abortion. What Obama is talking about would actually stop some abortions even if it is still legal.
If the goal is to stop a single abortion, you are all wasting your time making eachother feel so superior. You are not doing anything that will stop a single abortion. You are all just waiting around for the Supremem Court to do something for you and you are getting nowhere.
Reducing the amount of permiscuity and unwanted pregnancies, as Obama stated, is effective and will stop some abortions.
Thanks for this Randy!
Thanks for your response to Don Miller as well. Chrisitans need to be confronted about such a basic issue as life.
Most likely, my comment will not be popular.
I am a mother of 3 boys. In my early 20's I had an abortion at 7 weeks gestation. At that time in my life, I was not a Christian. I was an only child who had been physically abused, from a broken family, and was more lost and spiraling downward than I care to recall. After my abortion, I spent years in grief and pain, and disgust with myself. By the grace of God, I was saved, renewed, cleansed, made whole again, and completely forgiven.
I am pro-life. I do not at all like Obama's position on this topic. But I align more with Obama and his other issues than with McCain/Palin. (I too have a beautiful child with Down syndrome).
Early voting is open in my area and I have made the decision not to vote until I have prayed through this more. I do believe God cares about my vote, which is why I am seeking Him. And who knows...but that this might be the answer...
Regardless of who is elected president, I believe that tragedy is always going to be present surrounding unplanned and unwanted pregnancies. I believe our churches and communities should be more pro-active about educating young men and women, and with nurturing young women who find themselves in this position....setting aside their sin for God to judge, but not for us to judge.
Thank you very much for this post. I am considering it and appreciate the perspective.
Anonymous-
We would all want less unwanted pregnancies, but that is not the point. If you go read the post again, Randy shows that Obama's views, votes and policies will advance the cause of abortion, and the number of abortions will grow under his watch. That is what the freedom of choice act will do. He talks of finding common ground to reduce abortions but his actions show that his priorities are just the opposite.
We are not waiting around for the Supreme Court to do something. Every advance of the pro-life movement is at stake here. The banning of partial-birth abortions, parental consent laws and other things of that nature, that actually reduce abortions will be thrown out by Obama if the FOCA makes it to him. Maintaining what we have is not the goal but it is better than going backwards.
Thank you so much for this post. It put EXACTLY what I have been feeling the past few months (after pouring over Obama's voting record) into words. I'm glad someone was able to do it!
I would like to respond to Jordan's comments regaring the babies delivered prior to 24 weeks...it is a complete falsehood to suggest that they are not viable before.
About that 23-24 week rule…do we remember Amillia Sonja Taylor? Here is a recent update for Amillia…she will be turning 2 soon:
http://growingyourbaby.com/2007/10/25/amillia-taylor-turns-1/
It is commonly said that before 23 weeks a fetus is not a baby and is neither viable nor capable a sustaining life outside of the mother's womb. Amillia was delivered at 22 weeks and 6 days gestation. 4 months after delivery, she was released from the hospital to her home with her mom & dad.
Also, anytime a baby is delivered prematurely even at 18 weeks, doctors do everything they possibly can to preserve the life of the baby...and are very highly sucessful.
I do not understand why there is so much trouble for people to realize, that even in cases of rape, incest, and even life endangerment - why would it be the woman's 'choice' to terminate the life of a baby. I can understand…and accept that it is certainly her choice what she wants done to her body, but it is not her choice in any case to decide what happens to the baby. If she doesn't want to carry the baby - she doesn't have to. We have the technology (and have since the early 80's) for the baby to be removed while preserving both lives…the baby can develop in a surrogate or even an artificial incubator.
According to this WIKI article, John Buster performed the first successful embryo transfer from one human to another, in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Buster
I am fully opposed to pro-abortion campaigns, their motives, and their agenda. I am fully opposed to abortion and do not believe that it is ever an honest nor viable option. It may just be the quickest and/or cheapest.
The argument that many Christians in American who support Obama is that becuase he somehow stands up for innocent civilians in war-torn countries, for genocidal victims, for the poor, for disease stricken and impovershed nations of the world, is against torture, wants to feed the hungry and so on - that he is pro-life even though he supports (if not promotes and condones) the killing of a defenseless child. I just can't grasp how anyone can come to that conclusion.
If you are prolife - than you don't support the killing of anyone - unborn or born years ago. Life is Life no matter what age, culture, or race. I fear that those Christians, who support Obama becuase he stands against policy that causes strife around the world, somehow believe that God will bless America if the American Government "acts" like Jesus to the world while ignorantly proliferating evil in our own land.
ee-ghaads, I just don't get it!
When has it ever been anyone's 'right' to terminate another life?
If not voting for Obama is not cool, then I'm a teenager who isn't cool. A person's stance on the abortion issue tells a lot about their moral stance as well.
Now, I also want to add however - that Obama in passing the FOCA would be simply and plainly unconstitutional. The act will usurp all state rights over the matter....
The RoeVWade Court decision is also an unconstitutional decision becuase the Supreme court never in any means has the authority to hear a case, much less make a ruling, on such matters as civilian life.
McCain as well...will institute unconstitutional authority on the matter as well by trying to overturn RoeVWade an replacing it with another act or bill that would outlaw abortion....either case is wrong.
HOWEVER, as many people have been pushing in many states,(www.personhood.net) the key is passing legislation (be it on the state or federal level) that grants basic human rights to all human beings from Conception to Natural Death.
Chuck Baldwin of the OCnstitution party has promised to pass the Sanctity of Life Act (after overturning or voiding RvW)...and thus mandating not that abortion is illegal - but that the killing of any human being no matter what age (born and unborn) would be murder...
Right now, in many states there are court trial that have sentences people with murder in the event of the killing of a baby in the womb - not by abortion, but by other means.
In Texas news a Palmview man was charged with murder for killing an 18 week old fetus - he kicked the mother in the abdomen:
http://www.valleymorningstar.com/news/palmview_35570___article.html/degree_murder.html
A Victoria county Texas judge ruled a woman's womb was a lethal weapon because she used it to kill the five children she had conceived while using cocaine.
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/local/story/326221.html
The state does have an interest in protecting the unborn. No one has the right to live however they want, especially when what they are doing kills an unborn child.
I've gone on long enough....sorry. :)
Randy,
I see this much the same way that you do. Initially, I actually felt a level of affinity for Barack Obama--and that is something given that I worked for President Bush at the White House a few years ago. Although I still respect some of the positions of Obama and I deplore many of the campaign tactics that John McCain has used, I cannot accept the spin and sophistry coming from Obama on abortion. As someone who watched President Bush do the same type of spin on gay marriage (make promises he had no intention to keep), let me be clear: Barack Obama has no intention of curtailing abortion. He is an out-and-out pro-abortion advocate.
For all the mistakes and impotence of President Bush, I will always respect his relentless defense of unborn human life. I will never forget a conversation myself and a few other staffers had with him on this topic. His genuine and relentless commitment to protect innocent unborn life nearly brought me to tears.
Please take Randy's words seriously.
John
Randy,
Thank you so much for your stand on this most important issue. I read through many of the posts here and just had to stop and make my own post as when I see several posters here 'side-stepping' this MOST important issue to find reasons to support Mr. Obama, I want to pull my own hair out.
Abortion IS the most important issue. IF we dont respect life at all stages of it, the rest of the issues have no validity. The 10 Commandments state that we are NOT to MURDER. How anyone can claim that an abortion at any stage in a pregnancy is not murder is beyond me. And for someone who claims to be a Christian sidestepping this issue truely makes me want to ask them to explain just WHAT that term (Christianity) means to them because anyone who could support Mr. Obama and his pro-MURDER stance truely cannot call themselves a follower of Christ.
The rest of the issues truely have no bearing if this most important one is not settled. The next president will most likely have the opportunity to place 2 or more justices on the supreme court. Do we EVER want more justices such as Ruth Bader Ginsberg who wanted to take all 'age of consent' out of the law and allow 12 year olds to consent to have sex? How ANY one who calls themself a christian could conceive of voting for a man who would put more justices of this kind upon the ussc is beyond my thinking.
Today while listening to my morning talk show, I was informed that while Mr. Obama is out there telling people like Bob the Plumber that he IS going to take more of his income to give to those less fortunate than he (Bob) is, Mrs Obama is at the Waldorf Astoria calling room service ordering Lobster appetizers along with two steamed lobsters and Iranian Caviar for herself and Barak for dinner. Does anyone NOT see the disparity between her husband wanting to TAKE money from a small business owner and her feeling its HER RIGHT to eat lobster via room service on our tax dollars? Is THIS the kind of 'Sharing the weath' that any of you want?
Barak stated that America is no longer a Christian nation and if we elect this man, we are agreeing with him that America is no longer a country ruled by judeo-christian laws as it was set up.
If we allow this man, Mr. Barak Hussein Obama to become president of this great country of ours, HE WILL MAKE SURE that we are not a Christian nation.( please remember his words from his own book stating that if push comes to shove, he will stand up with the Muslims). We could very well elect a man who will make sure that Christianity will be made possibly illegal and Islam the only acceptible religion.
We followers of Christ have only a few short days left to awaken those of us who abhor abortion and to get more of us to the voting booth on Nov 4th.
Randy you are right, one day we all WILL stand before our Lord and will have to answer for every decision we've made and to support "Cool" over "what is right" wont be so cool at that point when our Lord looks at us and asks us how we could have voted for such a man as Barak Obama and his PRO-MURDER stance.
jackie M
grass valley
Melissa, thanks for your honesty. You state "I align more with Obama and his other issues than with McCain/Palin."
But here's the thing. Obama is lying through his teeth regarding his desire to reduce abortions. Randy demonstrated that here (even if he was too gracious to be definitive about it), and I elaborated on it in my earlier comment and on my blog.
Given that, how can you know that you "align more with Obama and his other issues". Perhaps you align with what he says are his stances on other issues, but if he's lying about abortion, what's to stop him from lying about those other issues?
Randy,
I just had to address one more issue and that is Partial Birth Abortion. It is NEVER needed to save the life of the mother as it usually promoted. Most people do not understand this procedure.
During PBA, the baby is all delivered but the baby's head which remains inside the mothers vagina. The doc promptly shoves scissors into the back of the baby's head and then takes a suction maching and sucks the baby's brains out. He then just delivers the baby's head. Delivering the head ALWAYS has to be done and sucking the brains out of the baby will not change that. This is the thing that is so horrific about this procedure. Whether the baby is fully delivered with its brains still inside its head or not makes no difference in the saving of the mother. That is the lie of this procedure. The head has to be delivered anyway so nothing about this will save the mother, but it will make sure the baby is dead. It is the most barbaric thing I can think of for any human being to do to another human being. They call it 'choice'.
Electing Mr. Obama will ensure this type of proceedure will be promoted as he totally promotes abortion on demand at ANY stage of a womans pregnancy. HE WOULD allow a woman to have this proceedure done the day before her 'due date'.
A nation is judged by how it treats its children, its elderly and its infirm. Mr. Obama leaves much to be desired and how anyone who even believes in God, let alone who calls themself a born again Christian could even begin to think that this procedure is to be promoted.
As I said in my last post, Mr. Obama says that we are no longer a Christian nation. He will be proof of that should he be elected.
I am deep in prayer
jackie m
grass valley, calif
ps. thank you randy for your pocket version of heaven, I received it yesterday and am enjoying it!
Thanks a lot for the great post, Randy Alcorn!!
I am greatly encouraged to see others making powerful arguments that Christians ought not vote for Obama. The Scripture references are particularly powerful.
a nation should be judged on how it treats its children/elderly? nice.
what if they just happen to not be from this country? should that be a determining factor? death is ok to the darker complexion at the hands of our political leaders, but not to our own kind.
ridiculous.
i hate abortion and find the practice deplorable and disgusting. the taking of life is no more justified in this instance than in the happenstance victims of war. a mother and child in a marketplace, burned to a crisp from an american bomb. we're so much better?
the only point i'm trying to make is that, our elected leaders should not be elected based on ONE issue. this country has many sin-gripped issues, and to say that we want 'Christian' leadership is being naive. We attack issues one by one, but in the past eight years, the supposed 'bastion' of Conservative hope has neither made abortion illegal (as so many thought), gay marriage has increased in more states (as the Bush said he would make sure would not happen), the economy has gotten worse (due to a standard of cronyism).
I do not agree with Obama nor McCain (a philanderer, but you'll all ignore that right?). I think we should be informed voters, and not vote based on ONE issue that will not be resolved in the next four years. There are things that can be touched on, one by one. Bringing back family rights to the families, making sure that freedom of worship also protects Christians from outside persecution, the list goes on. Abortion isn't solved with the election of one man. It's the result of a nation mobilized to value life in all forms, fetus, walking, or foreign too.
HOWEVER, we should not be so fooled to think that we can create a Christian utopia here on earth. our sights should be eternal, and fully understanding that man's sin cannot save himself, the world is bound to get worse before Christ's return. no policy can save man, no politician. it is the saving work of Christ on the cross.
don't kid yourselves, your votes don't mean that much in eternity. go out and share the Gospel, not politics.
Got to love those who won't take credit for their comments.
Anonymous, YES I DO believe that a country is judged on those issues.
To compare this war to Abortion is totally ludricrous. WE did not start the war and our soldiers have done everything in their power to prevent collateral damage to women and children and elderly and those not involved in terrorism as best they can. Our soldiers are amazing and I find your words very offensive.
Somehow many liberals believe that its ok to murder babies in their mothers's womb but have an issue with fighting a just war. Makes no sense to me at all. In Biblical days, the Lord allowed just wars many times.
Did anyone say they excused any presumptive infidelity of McCain? I sure didnt read anything like that nor does it have anything to do with Abortion.
Another typical liberal tactic, when ya can't win with logical discussion, change subjects.
Randy, Im not trying to start a flame here but I HAD to say something in regards to the response to my post.
Abortion is murder,it is the DELIBERATE taking of another human life.It is planned. It is no accident. The life being taken was given no choice in the matter. In war, both parties are there participating willingly. The terrorists did not care that they murdered children and women and elderly folks of both sexes when they took over planes and flew them into the towers, the pentagon and tried to get to the white house. There WERE children on those flights and their lives were taken deliberately with no reason on the part of the terrorists. They did not care WHOM they killed as long as they were non-muslim, and American. American Soldiers DO care who we kill and have made every effort to only kill those who want to kill us. Unfortunately there have been some innocent people killed but our soldiers did not go after them deliberately.
Abortion IS the DELIBERATE MURDER of an innocent life without that life having any say so in the procedure.
Mr Obama is pro-murder. He wants NO limits on abortion at ANY stage of pregnancy. He is lying when he says that he wants to reduce the number of abortions and to have limitations on late term abortions. Thats a lie. HE has voted against every bill put forth to put limits on abortion.
Any human being who can behave that way cannot possibly say they follow Jesus.
I DO believe it IS an issue where Christians really DO NEED to put their vote where their heart is.
You are right in that one 'usually' doesn't vote for a particular candidate over ONE issue, I would say that would make sense when its any OTHER issue than this one. This issue HAS to take prescedence over all others and will to anyone who 'calls' himself a follower of Christ.
jackie m
grass valley, calif
Wouldn't it be great if we could all see the truth. His truth and loving way. I guess all we can do is try our best through prayer and learning of the scripture to make worldly decisions.
Being pro-choice is NOT the same as being pro-abortion. Obama has repeatedly said he is not pro-abortion, but nothing has been brought to the senate to allow abortions for mom's health. Being pro-choice means that he believes a WOMAN has a right to morally decide along with her family or spouse or significant other what to do. I do NOT agree with aborting a baby, no, but I believe women aren't out there saying Ooh boy I can't wait to get another abortion today! That is such a preposterous train of thought.
Awesome post, thank you so much for sharing. It's so disheartening to see so many Christians supporting Obama, either ignoring the godlessness of his stance or justifying it. Christians only have a couple weeks to wake up and open their eyes!
I am sincerely dismayed to see so many people in lock step on this issue. Sometimes it seems that Christianity in America has been so overly politicized that believers that I know cannot distinguish the teachings of Jesus from those of Adam Smith, Ronald Reagan, or Thomas Jefferson. Neither capitalism nor socialism are Christian or unchristian. The same can be said for conservatism. It is high time that Christians stop passing judgment on the motives of those they disagree with. The Democratic party does not value life any less than the Republican party, in fact I would argue that they value it far more. While I am personally not among them, many reasonable people believe that abortion is moral and does not constitute murder. If Christians want to end abortion so bad why don't they organize themselves instead of trying to play chess with the Supreme Court once every four years. Why is there no organized mass movement trying to get Christians to adopt and give good homes to unplanned children. That being said, the Democratic party position is to empower people to make this moral decision for themselves. I believe that legislating against it at this point is not a practical way of reducing the number of actual abortions taking place. Furthermore the Republican party has in every other way shown a complete disregard for human life by sending our military to die in two unnecessary armed conflicts while taking the lives of over a hundred thousand innocent civilians in these countries in the past eight years. We Christians gave our resounding support out of a misdirected sense of sinful revenge. These are people, created in God's image, who are mostly unevangelized and whose families perceive that Christians are fighting a religious war against them. Secondly, sighting Abraham Lincoln as evidence that the GOP cares at all for civil rights and civil liberties is spurious logic at best. The fact that we have to go back 163 years to find an example of a Republican president who appeared to regard the life of a poor person, let alone a black or brown person, equal to his own goes to show how morally degenerate the wealthy power brokers in the party are. This has been recently brought to a new low with the current presidents abuses of constitutional power and his lasse faire attitude toward the thousands of desperate people in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina. Kanye West was absolutely right, and all the Christians I know vilified him for standing up for the people Jesus told us to stand up for. In summary (I say this only to counter the heavy handed moral absolutism of this article and the vast majority of the replies): You have blood on your hands no matter who you vote for.
Wow. I don't want any blood on my hands. I'm not voting.
Kevin
Abortion has absolutely nothing to do with both wars in the middle east and your logic is absurd to say the least.
We kept Saddam from taking over Kuiwait the first time, the second time we removed Saddam from power.
Both times we did what was right and what would protect the innocent people who were suffering at the hands of saddam and his two evil ofspring.
Once again, your logic at comparing war against abortion is totally absurd.
There ARE times when people of faith must stand up FOR WHAT IS RIGHT and this IS one of them. Just because one can 'say' that 'for some abortin is a moral choice' does NOT make it a moral choice. There are things in life that are black and white and this IS one of those times.
Please vote your conscience, but don't attempt to say that voting for a man who promotes/tolerates/allows etc the murder of innocent HUMAN BEINGS as being in any way a christian choice. It Isnt. Read your Bible.
jackie m
grass valley, calif
Randy, thank you so much for all of your shared wisdom. During this election period, I have often turned to your thoughts as a rock during this very unsteady time. I feel surrounded by fellow believers that are voting for Obama and I feel alone sometimes. My biggest problem with Obama has always been his support for the pro choice movement and I have heard so many say "that isn't the only thing you should look at" when I believe deep in my heart that is exactly one of the most important issues, if not the most important issue. It breaks my heart that others are willing to stand by and vote for a man that is so ready and willing to let millions of innocent humans die. I will not be one of those people. Thank you again for your wisdom.
I consider myself a pro-life Christian. To me, pro-life extends beyond the issue of abortion. My belief in protecting lives leads me to support causes such as getting out of the war in Iraq as quickly as possible, stopping the production of nuclear arms, increasing support in countries that suffer through genocide, reducing support of countries that endlessly harass others, ending the right to bear arms, encouraging environmentally-friendly living, ending capital punishment, providing fair and equal wages, and of course, saving the lives of the unborn child.
Too often, I hear Christians determine who they will vote for based on one issue – abortion. But what about the thousands of innocent lives that are being killed in the Middle East every day? Obama wants to get out of that war as quickly as possible whereas McCain wants to increase the production of nuclear arms. Randy said, “But it is even worse to promise something bad, something that is in fact evil—the furthering of the shedding of innocent blood—and then keep your promise.” Could this not be said for McCain and his views on war as well?
Of course, neither candidate is perfect. I do not support everything on either candidate’s platform. But when I go to vote in November, I will be considering issues far beyond the one cause of abortion. I will be looking at education, health care, poverty, international policy, the economy, and the global future of our country. Now, which candidate will help us create an environment for the most people, born and unborn, to have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
For another view, read Jim Wallis’ blog at:
http://co104w.col104.mail.live.com/mail/InboxLight.aspx?FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&n=1099065170
Anonymous,
I am curious - why do you see the war in the Middle East and abortion as so completely separate issues? Are they separate matters? Of course. But do they both address the problem of killing innocent people? Yes they do. If we call ourselves pro-life, shouldn't that extend to both the unborn and the born people of the world? Innocent lives, including children, are killed in the Middle East every day - are you saying that the unborn child is more important than these children? In your blog, you said, "don't attempt to say that voting for a man who promotes/tolerates/allows etc the murder of innocent HUMAN BEINGS as being in any way a christian choice." Hmmm...what about those HUMAN BEINGS in the Middle East? To me, pro-life = pro-life. Pro-life does not simply equal Anti-abortion.
Republicanism is a cult!! It does say in the Bible to Judge not lest you be judged, all I hear on this blog is judgementalism at its finest. The issue that you bring up is an issue with many different cases involved. So my fellow christian friend you would be pro=life in the case of incest or rape???? See you cannot nor will you ever answer this question because everything in your mind is cut and dry!! The following excerpt about Mccain and Palin is completely ridiculous at best
" John McCain wasn’t my first choice for president. But at least McCain's a hero, he suffered for his country and fellow soldiers. And at least he thinks innocent children shouldn’t be slaughtered, and has consistently voted that way. And he's chosen a running mate who not only professes to be prolife but lived it out by valuing a precious Down Syndrome child that 80% of people would have aborted. McCain and Palin are far from perfect. But I believe they would honestly stick up for the most oppressed and violated people group in this nation, unborn children."OH PLEASE
This is a political party that is running on family values and Palins knocked up 17 year old is being forced to marry the little high school kid?? Boy this is someone that I would love to have running this country. And John Mccain might be a war hero but he is a womanizing idiot that left his disfigured wife and fooled around on her for 5 years prior to getting married to a BEER HEIRESS.Boy these are some great family values!!! See this is what I mean republicanism is a cult, you only see what you want to see.
Why dont you become a radio talk show host like Rush or Mike Medved or Michael Savage and spew your rah rah bush antics, you would make a helluva alot more money
Jodi
My stance on Abortion vs the war in the middle east do not support one and the same issue. There ARE 4,000 babies aborted in this country EVERY single day. Thats nearly more than all have died in the war in Iraq. EVERY SINGLE DAY, 4000 Human Americans are murdered!
Lives are NOT lost EVERY day in the middle east. If we are going to talk about numbers, then lets be truthful here about what is and what is not going on. There are sporatic(not daily) episodes of terrorist bombings throughout Iraq. It is NOT the American Soldiers who are blowing themselves up in order to kill innocent iraqi women and children. WE are there to stop that kind of behavior and enable the Iraqi government the time to grow strong enough to handle their own country without our continued support in their country. Remember, they have been under an evil cruel dictator for more than 30 years and the change is not going to happen overnight. To pull out of Iraq immediately, which even Mr. Obama has admitted recently that he will not do, but to pull out immediately would set up issues on the same line as what happened when we pulled out of Viet Nam and the Kremmer rouge took over and murdered and annilhated millions of human beings because they were not strong enough at that time to protect themselves. How can we be expected to help stop genocide in other countries and yet not help them set up their new governments after we've helped them to stop the murder? McCain's stance is that we will stay for as long as it takes. If in another year, the Iraqi government is able to handle everything, then we'll be leaving for sure. He is NOT planning to stay for 100 years. His statement was meant to state the obvious, we will stay as long as we are needed. They are taking what he said out of context deliberately. Remember, another one of the 10 commandments are that we are not to lie. McCain is not suggesting we stay forever, but even if he were saying that, whats wrong with that? We still have bases in Germany, England, Spain, all over Europe and Asia and those wars have been long ago ended. Im all for peace in the world but as long as we have human beings who are willing to set up 'rape rooms' and terror rooms and to threaten (Iran) to annilhate God's chosen people in Israel, we must be of some help. In KNOWING the truth and knowing what is right , does that alone not set us up to do something when human rights are being violated? Are we, as the most powerful nation on the earth not responsible to help those who are being terrorized by evil dictators who have no moral compass? Does it not say in God's Word that to those who much is given that much is expected? America and the west have always stood for peace and freedom and if WE wont step in and help others who are being terrorized and are suffering from some of the most gastly human rights violations, then who will? If there were no Saddams and other dictators who are purely EVIL in the world, then we all could stay home and the world would be at peace. But thats not going to happen as long as there are evil men in this world.
As I said, War is the deliberate fighting between two grownups, Abortion is the deliberate murder of an innocent person. Im against the murder of any innocent person of any color or race. However, there is 'richeous' anger and war and defending the helpless is so important. American IS making every attempt to protect those not involved and reduce the amount of collateral damage. Remember Jesus words stating that what we do to the least of us, we do to him.
You cannot compare the innocent murder of an infant prior to birth to killing someone who wants to kill you. They ARE two separate issues.
The bottom line is that Mr. Obama will sign into law a bill that will undo every other anti-abortion legislation that have saved lives, many lives. Mr. Obama WILL promote Abortion and the taking of innocent lives even the day before their due date to be born.
To knowing vote THIS KIND of man into the position of President of this great nation is NOT a choice or vote a "real Christian" would make. It is one thing to vote for someone that you may not know this about, but YOU DO KNOW that Mr. Obama is a supporter of Abortion at ANY stage of pregnancy, so you have no excuse.
I personally would not want to stand before Jesus and see the look on HIS face when he looked at me KNOWING that I 'could/would/did' vote for someone who lacks so much moral character. The sadness and disappointment in His eyes would make me want to throw myself off a cliff. I could not live with that.
This issue IS the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE for any candidate and to say otherwise does NOT make it so.
By the way, my name is Jackie, its posted at the bottom of every post I make, Im not anonymous, I just dont have an account.
Randy, God blessed you with a fine talent. Thank you for using your gift of writing to do good.
This is a very biased article. I am a Christian who is one hundred percent against abortion but I am also against capital punishment. We are all equal, we are all sinners, and none of us have the right to decide who lives and who dies. This applies not only to abortion, but also to capital punishment.
Also, McCain's platform is not anti-abortion it is anti-federal control of abortion. If you look into McCain's stance on the subject, he simply wants to make abortion a state-to-state issue. This seems naive at best.
Look at all aspects before posting such an article. So far, Obama's faith has played more of a part than McCain's in this election.
If this comment is not published, it will prove just how biased this writer is.
Thank you for your words. Very intense food for thought here. This has been a difficult time for me as a Christian because I am trying to do the right and godly thing. I just don't see how McCain and Palin are any more godly in character than Obama. They are both on a hateful spree to win the white house. Morals have left both parties long ago. While I'm thankful for the right to vote, I can't fathom a more dirty, mean-spirited campaign. Is this how they'll be when elected? I don't believe that Obama is any more or less evil than McCain. Sin is sin.
thank you for your honest, detailed appraisal of the situation...
Dear Anonymous, (Oct 19)
I had trouble getting past the first part of your posting where you sited U.S. military casualties as the only people to die in Iraq. Iraqi civilian casualties alone are estimated at almost 100,000 at this date. Not to mention Iraqi military personnel and of course insurgent casualties as well as their civilian victims. All have perished as a direct result of decisions made by the current president. I am going to try to go back and read the rest of what you have to say but your opening premise is grossly misinformed.
Jordan said: "this is a red herring ...children born after only 24 weeks in the womb cannot survive, period. Even at 24 weeks, it's touch and go. Machines can keep those children alive, but at great cost, and they'll never be able to survive outside the hospital."
As a practicing physician who has both delivered babies and participated in resuscitations of infants, let me clarify the issue. (I realize you said that you were paraphrasing.)
1) Children born PRIOR (I assume that's what you meant) to/at 24 weeks have near-zero chance of long-term survival. Children born 24-26 weeks have a slim chance of survival; and often do have profound problems if they survive the hospital.
2) The law in question (that Obama opposed) was meant ensure that infants that survive abortion receive the benefit of basic treatment (ie: warmth, swaddling, etc), and had more to do with human dignity than technology. No physician is required to resuscitate an infant (or any person) when that would be absolutely futile.
I bring this up, b/c a red herring the pro-choice side often tries to use is that doctors will be forced to do inhumane and super-human “artificial” interventions. The argument basically centers around the (accurate) dismal statistics regarding the long-term outcomes of these infants; what the argument ignores is that (a) these infants are still human beings, and (b) as the recent story out of Florida illustrates, that when delivered in an abortion setting, these infants are often treated no more humanely than random pathology specimens.
To quote the American Academy of Pediatrics on the federal bill similar to the one Obama opposed in IL: “H.R. 2175 would not affect the applicable standard of care, but would only insure that all born-alive infants—regardless of their age and regardless of the circumstances of their birth—are treated as persons for purposes of Federal law” and “Those newly born infants who are deemed appropriate to not resuscitate … should be treated with dignity and respect, and provided with “comfort care” measures.” (The AAP took a firm stance that physicians’ judgment is not being overridden: see http://www.aap.org/nrp/instres/instres_born-alive.html for more details). Why was this such a terrible law? Why would Obama oppose it?
So bringing up what Obama stood for is not a 'red herring.' He stood against a law designed to help ensure living human beings (infants) the dignity of basic human rights (measures that even a hospice patient (someone who has forsworn any “lifesaving” treatment) would have the right to expect). The law Obama opposed would not force physicians’ hands, and cause them to do medically futile procedures. What Obama opposed was treating these people as if they were human beings.
This, to me, says Obama was so beholden of the pro-abortion lobby that he, like his political allies, opposed it because it might cause a “foothold” by which abortions might be limited. So he is unwilling to protect people from callous treatment in the name of political expediency.
That is not a man I would say emulates the teachings of Jesus (contrary to the assertions of Don Miller).
This is not to flame you (or your wife), but to help you realize you (and especially she) need to be on guard. I am not that far removed from my training years, and remember all too well how my superiors would misrepresent issues (later, as an attending, I realized were based more on their politics than desire to train me well) with the pressure of “grading” my performance. It’s a difficult time to be a resident. But realize that your wife (for now) is protected by conscience laws, currently on the books, to act upon her faith as she practices.
I pray that your wife (and I, and other pro-life physicians in America) never have to face the horrible choice Obama, Planned Parenthood, and their allies really do hope for us to have to face: that of either participating in an abortion, or losing our license to practice medicine. (Part of Obama’s track record is to oppose the Hyde Amendment and other legislation that guarantees conscience rights to employed health care workers.)
Kevin
No, I have been very clear about my statement regarding the war. The collateral damage IS simply a part of war, not that it makes it any better. I hate collateral damage, I wish it never occurred, I wish there were some way to deal with all of this without collateral damage, but its not feasible.... However, most of those people who have died that were not actively involved in actual combat died as a result of their own people becoming human bombs and accidental IED activation. THAT is not the fault of the American soldier. Yes, there are some who have been accidently killed and that is very sad. Our soldiers for the most part have behaved in very honorable ways and have done everything possible to avoid harming anyone not involved in the actual fighting.
Whether or not we should have gone into Iraq or not is something that can be debated until Jesus comes back and we will probably never agree upon one answer.
However, back to the topic at hand which IS abortion. Abortion is the deliberate planned murder of an innocent baby who has no say so in his own demise. That is wrong in any case, yes, even in the case of rape. No pregnancy is unplanned in God's eyes if you believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God as it clearly states that We were formed by God and that HE knew us before the creation of the world. That means that each and every one of us WAS planned by God! Who are WE to over ride what God has created? That seems to be pretty arrogant.
God gives life and God takes life away, its NOT up to us nor is it OUR place to over ride God's word.
This is one of those issues that is clearly a black or white issue and its very very clear what God's word says about it.
Ultimately it is God whom we all have to answer to. God has given us all a spirit of courage to stand up for what IS RIGHT, not what is cool or what seems to be acceptible according to the world, especially a world who doesnt even acknowledge God. It seems over the past generation or two that we're so busy trying to be accepting of everything in this "Im ok, you're ok" world that nothing is considered right or wrong anymore.
And this doesnt even begin to discuss Obama's wanting to force the use of our tax dollars to pay for these murders of babies.
I remain prayerful on this issue and that the Lord will open the eyes of those who cannot or willnot see what Abortion truely is.
jackie m
grass valley, calif
This so accurately reflects my feelings about Senator Obama. I so wanted to vote for him, but my conscience will not allow it. How can I vote for a guy who sanctions the killing of children born during an abortion attempt, let alone someone who unequivocally supports abortion on demand. Can't go there. Brothers and sisters, please don't go there.
drrob, God Bless you for your most accurate words about another part of this issue, the forcing of medical doctors and nurses to have to play a part in something that they feel is against their faith. I spent 15 years as a 911 paramedic in Oregon, part of that time was during Oregon's "Right to die" law's being formulated and enacted. It was something that I had issue with because of my belief that we are not to murder or deliberately take another human beings life. My 'worldly' thinking was that if an adult who was in their right mind wanted to end their life because of pain and suffering based upon a short timeline to death anyway, well who am I to tell them they have to stay and suffer longer? I had truely mixed feeling about that law. We were brought into groups with our Physician Advisor to talk about this upcoming law and how to handle this situation should it arise on our shift at work. It did arrive on mine once. WE were called to the home of a lady who was terminal, in great pain who had been granted the medication in order to end her life on her terms. It did not matter what I thought or wanted to do about it. WE had to let this woman end her life as it was the law. She wanted to die, had taken the meds and when her family arrived and saw that she'd taken the meds, they called 911. It was a very difficult call as in my 'gut' I wanted to do everything to save her life as I was trained.
However, I could not do so and had to only make sure that she knew what she was doing, that she was mentally capable to make such a choice and then try to calm her family. As a state certified paramedic in Oregon ( I have since moved to Calif and am no longer certified anywhere due to my own health issues), I could not even 'offer' to pray with this family. Had they asked me to do so, I would have complied. So I understand what you are saying about being a physician who 'would' be forced to participate in performing abortions against your conscience would truely turn American Medical care into something out of the gulag's of Russia. I believe that should this happen, more physicians will choose to stop delivering babies and addressing 'women's health issues'. So in the long run, we would certainly have less choice of doctors willing to see us and treat us.
Another issue that I find abhorant is just how so many liberal pro-abortion advocates who keep trying to tell us that they are "pro-choice" were so disgusted at Sarah Palin who CHOSE to have her downs syndrome baby. It was her choice and they truely hate her for making that choice because, and I've heard several of them say that she 'should have aborted him' because he will eventually be more costful of the state if and when he outlives his parents. They only call it 'choice' when someone chooses to murder their baby, but when someone decides to choose to keep their baby, they are disgusted and appalled at that person's choice. So its really NOT about Choice at all..
Liberalism truely is a mental illness and to force the health care professionals to follow the orders of these mentally ill people is like a sighted person being forced to hold hands with a blind person and walk off the cliff with them. Its wrong.
drrob, thank you again for your thoughtful post regarding how Mr. Obama's rulings would affect you as a physician. I hope and will continue praying that this never comes to be.
jackie m
grass valley, calif
This is an interesting article. As a Christian who is pro-life and who already voted for Obama I must admit that I am surprised that no one, unless I missed it, has commented on the fact that abortion is a completely personal choice (regardless of whether or not it is a moral one). I have full control over whether or not I will ever get an abortion, and I won't. I would counsel my friends to choose life as well. I just don't believe that my hands would be covered in blood for voting for someone who says people should decide for themselves on something that is already legal and though not necessarily moral. Christians are known for voting on extremely narrow issues, but I believe that there are many moral issues to consider, in every election, especially this one. I can't get behind a candidate is in favor of excessive military presence worldwide and who would rather bail out / rescue wall street rather than struggling individuals. To me that says a lot about our values as a nation.
I agree with those of you who posted concerns about pro-life in terms of the current war, and the the wars our nation choses to fight (namely wars where we stand to gain economically) and those we choose to completely or partially ignore (Darfur). I think abortion is one of many important issues, and uniquely one that I have complete control over. I do not have control over the innocent lives the war claims in the middle east, or the way the US allows working poor to suffer in poverty within our national borders. I would rather use my vote to weigh in on the broader issues that I cannot directly control than on one that I can already say is settled. Who we vote for does not make or break us as Christians. God sees the heart and the motive behind each decision, not just the decision we make on election day.
Thank you for posting this. I couldn't agree with you more. Too many Christians are falling prey to the "Hope" and "Change" mantra or trying to draw moral equivalency between the war in Iraq and the slaughter of innocent children. Hope and change are emotionally charging but one has to ask if the hope and change will be for better or worse. The slaughter of innocent children and the appointment of supreme court justices, who will ensure this slaughter continues for generations to come, is not the kind of hope and change Christians should be looking for.
In terms of the war, we can debate that as Christians. I believe the war in Iraq takes the fight to the enemy which keeps terrorists attacking soldiers in Iraq rather than blowing up buildings in America. We also removed a ruthless dictator that killed hundreds of thousands of his own people with mustard gas. I was in the military and saw videos of villages that looked like they had been hit with bug spray. Women died clutching children in their arms. He had rape rooms, torture chambers, and a secret police force that would cut your tongue out if you spoke a word of dissent against the government. Saddam was undeniably evil and it could be argued that the American military was God's judgment on Iraq in the same way Israel was an instrument of Judgment in the old testament.
Like I said, that is debatable like many other Christian issues, however, there is no debate on abortion. Drawing moral equivalency between American soldiers dying to protect their country from terrorists and the killing of innocent children is ridiculous, in my opinion.
Another problem with an Obama presidency is that we will have a democratic congress and possibly a 60 vote democratic majority in the senate. This will give voice to many anti-religious groups, like the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, who want to see God completely removed from American society. To these groups, truth is subjective and there is no room for a God who teaches right and wrong or good and evil. These concepts are simply matters of perception. This means that Christian influence in American society could be seriously diminished allowing post modernist ideologies to make serious in-rounds. This could lead to our nation becoming completely secular.
Barak Obama may have soaring rhetoric that draws upon our desire for hope and change but he sits at the head of a party whose ideas are in direct opposition to everything God stands for. I can't understand how a Christian can stand before God and say that they voted to put a man in office who helped propagate the slaughter of innocent children. What will you say to those children on judgment day when you see them standing in front of you? I don't think saying Obama was “Cool” or "Transformational" will cut it. That scenario is not one I care to experience. In the end times the bible says that even the elect will be deceived. Don’t let that be you. As for me, I'm voting for McCain.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write about this. I have been having a very difficult time deciding who to vote for. I will most definitely take this into account when I go to the polls in November.
And, just for the record, to the person who accused republicanism of being a "cult"... that's just a tad bit prejudice and a rather large assumption, don't you think? Sure, maybe you don't agree with a lot of the things they believe, and that is your right as an individual. But to lash out in such an immature fashion, accusing all republicans of being cult members, that is unfair and uncalled for. It is people like you that make liberal democrats look so rediculous in my eyes at times. If you will respect my opinion, I will respect yours. There's no need for name calling.
Amen Jason,
You put more of the issues together better than I did altho I tried to do so.
I too will not have to stand before the Lord and answer for voting for someone of Obama's character who will promote the furthering of Abortion. I will have enough of my own issues to have to answer for but I surely do not want this issue to be the tops of it.
And to anonymous who posted that they had already voted for Obama and call themselves a christian, I would ask you WHY you would vote for the very party and the very person who caused the melt down on Wallstreet? If you look back at the facts, Obama was the number TWO person who recieved the most money from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. It was HIS party who forced the banks through thuggery to give loans to those who they knew could not pay them back. They were threatened with all sorts of thing should they, the banks not give loans to those who did not qualify for them. THAT was the democratic party who did that.. with Obama's blessings.
I was thinking this morning about all of this and I think I could understand why someone would vote for Obama IF he ONLY had the banking issue behind him, OR IF he ONLY has Rezko behind him, OR IF he ONLY had Rev Wright behind him, OR IF he ONLY had Father Flager behind him, OR IF he ONLY had Ayers behind him..... BUT the FACT IS that all of these ppl are behind Obama and HE, Obama sought these thugs out in Chicago BECAUSE they believed as he did... And recently Ayers' radio interview was released where in 2002 HE admitted that he attacked America, and HE admitted that he was a Marxist... and there is even some talk that it was Ayers who wrote Obama's book which has total Socialism and marxist overtones in it...
If he only had ONE of the above issue,, maybe,, and maybe IF he were pro-Life,, but with all of these above issues, its a No brainer for me that he is NOT SUITABLE to be president and will do great damage to this once great country.
I am very sorry for anyone who has already voted for Obama. Buyers remorse will be on your plate one of these days, but it might be too late unless the rest of us who call ourselves followers of Christ get out there and vote and vote NOT for Obama.
Randy, thank you for keeping this dialogue open and for continuing to post my posts. I cannot think of everything I wish to say but as I read more of the posts of others, I remember other things I wanted to say. So thank You!
I remain prayerful
Jackie M
grass valley, calif
Excellent post!
Thank you for this post. My husband and I have been trying to determine what exactly Obama's stance on abortion was. I havent read any comments, unless I missed it, about Obama's statement that he doesnt believe that women make these decisions casually.I have known women to make it very casually. Even to go as far as using it as a way of birth control. Now this is extreme, but even if Obama doesnt agree that this is the way that it should be done, when you are "Pro-choice" you are exactly that. Pro- allowing-women-to-kill-someone-at- will. For the anonymous comment that wants to take morality out of the decision, even Obama says that this he is convinced this is a moral issue in his interview, and he had chosen his side.
I like that you compared it to slavery and the connection you made to the Republican party in years past. I would be interested to see how people relate abortion to discrimination in general...maybe a stretch, maybe not. "dis·crim·i·na·tion: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit". Color of skin,religion......Downs syndrome, product of a rape, disfigurement...whats the difference?
Randy, that was a pretty good post explaining the need to vote against Obama on just the ONE issue. However, I find it difficult for any Christian to vote for ANY Democrat because the party platform calls for not only full-scale abortion, but the full implementation of the homosexual agenda, and then hate crime laws to silence those who oppose the homosexual agenda. The Democratic party also promotes the socialist idea - and specifically stated by Obama - of punishing those who earn their money by taking it away and giving it to those who refuse to work. That is THEFT, another violation of the Commandments. So a party that advocates abortion, homosexual behavior, and theft should NEVER have a Christian vote, no matter how sappy they are when claiming to promote the welfare of the poor and needy. We have a Constitution that should be adhered to.
A couple other thoughts directed at comments posted:
As Christians we are called to judge righteously, and judging Obama based on his character, history in government, and current teachings of what he will do, let alone his non-Christian belief system (black liberation theology is not Christian), is certain right judgment.
Obama is NOT "African-American" and neither is anyone else since there is no such place as "Africa America." Such terminology is divisive. Additionally, Obama is not BLACK any more than he is WHITE. He has equal parentage. So why does everyone concentrate on only half of his parentage? This is racist.
Lastly, if one is against capital punishment, then one is against God because God ordained it. Read the Bible and you will find that long before the 10 Commandments and other laws, Noah was told about capital punishment. In the N.T. we learn that is a duty of the government.
Too many people are willing to fall sucker to Obama's charisma as he re-invents himself for each audience (he is thoroughly post-modernist) as they sell their country downriver to a degrading society based on Democrat policies.
Voting for a president based on abortion is ignorant and will eventually ruin this country. So many more people die everyday based on Republican policies on war and health care. You want to focus on those who are yet to be citizens instead of taking care of the ones we already have.
We have a serious Godly Worldview crisis in the church today. We need to start over again with the fundamentals (scary word for liberals) of truth. God, good, evil, justice, mercy. God is the creator of all mankind and all will give an account and be judged by him. There is absolute good and evil. The taking of human life is absolutely evil, such as abortion. The murder and oppression of evil dictators is evil, such as Hitler, Hussein. Justice is you stand up for the rights of the unborn and you stop evil dictators. These acts are not contrary to one another but one in the same. God, good, evil, justice, mercy. Where does the mercy come in? When the evil dictator ceases to commit evil acts, and when we show mercy. For all those involved in abortion who ceases from such evil, we show God's mercy. But when there is no turning from such evil, justice must ensue. This is "Loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and loving your neighbor as yourself."
"What does the Lord require of you, oh man, but to do Justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God."
Abortion is evil, Evil dictators are evil, there is no discrepancy.
Thank you for such a well written article backed by scripture. If Obama is not in favor of stopping abortions completely, no Christian should be voting for him, period.
I am a Christian and I am not voting for Obama to be "cool" as you imply people are doing. I am voting for him because I agree with most of his policies. I am pro-life. I am not pro-war. I think that Jesus cared about the poor and that Obama's policies favor social services for the poor. Unfortunately abortion will always exist, even if it is illegal. I can still take a stand against abortion by helping people make their personal decisions in a caring way through Crisis Preganancy Centers etc.
I just wanted to respond to the last Anonymous poster. Obama cares about the poor, he says, and so he wants to give them a handout. The hearts of the American public will never change if government systems do the things that we as believers ought to be doing. We as individuals should care about people who are legitimately poor and we should take care of them...If big brother takes over and does this for us, we'll never need to, and then how will our hearts be changed for God's glory?
Look at political history. How is Medicare doing? Medicaid? Other systems that promised to deliver so much? Look at the beginning of those systems and what the American people were told. Look at how the answer has always been (to the democratic party) "more money," as they think that will always solve problems with a program. Now look at how more money has worked. Has it? Has it ever been enough? Will it ever?
I would love to take a survey of people on the streets, because many are there by choice--like the Proverbs 10:4 says, "Lazy hands make a man poor." And if someone keeps going down paths that lead to being poor, should they get more handouts? I know there are legitimately poor people out there who are struggling. Unfortunately, what the majority need is really a job, not a handout.
How many are poor (even after being hard workers) and still suffering?
How many are dying in this war? (high estimate-civilions included, 16,000 per year)
How many die of abortion every year? 1.3 million little people who didn't sign up for any war, who didn't stop working and keep buying things they couldn't afford, who didn't rack up credit card debt, who didn't do anything wrong in their life ever--but they are punished--killed--because of their very existence. They deserve human rights.
Do you really believe that there always has to be abortion? Really? Do you not believe we have a really HUGE omnipotent God? He can do so much. He can work through all of us. He can do it on His own. He's capable, I'm positive.
I heard this joke yesterday, I think it rings pretty true and really won't be funny if Obama becomes president:
McCain, Clinton and Obama were walking down the street, and saw a poor man.
McCain reached into his wallet, handed the guy $20 and a business card and said "call these people, they'll hook you up with a job."
Clinton reached into McCain's wallet and grabbed $20 and gave it to the guy.
Obama looked into the guys eyes and said "have hope."
Anonymous said:
Voting for a president based on abortion is ignorant and will eventually ruin this country. So many more people die everyday based on Republican policies on war and health care. You want to focus on those who are yet to be citizens instead of taking care of the ones we already have.
Voting for Obama who says he supports Federally Funded Abortions, Partial Birth Abortions, and Infanticide is ignorant. It's really easy to drive by a blog and make vague unsubstantiated claims regarding republican policies. Do you really think anyone reads this and changes their mind when you offer no specifics about what policies resulted in death or who actually died? This is what happens when we allow emotion to interfere with logical thought.
The difference between the death penalty and the war is that unborn children are INNOCENT! Not all death is equal. Again, this is allowing ones feelings about death in general to trump common sense and logic. It might feel right but it's not. Unborn children are not criminals on death row and they are not soldiers who willingly risk their lives for their country. In both of those cases, people were given a choice, which resulted in a consequence. Unborn children are given no choice. They are simply killed because birthing them is inconvenient. The bottom line is that unborn children are innocent like your 4 year old daughter or son, except they have no one to speak for them.
Unborn children are lives that God created for a purpose. If we don't stand up for them no one else will. If we don't stand up for them then we stand against them and we stand against God's will for their lives. Unfortunately there are people who think saving the poor and other lesser issues trump murdering children. Helping the poor and all the lesser policies that one likes about Obama do not trump defending the unborn. Would you support Obama if he said he supported a policy that would allow parents to kill their 4 year old children because they were a burden? When you take the logic applied to unborn children and apply it to living children, it sounds utterly ridiculous. If you consider an unborn child a “real” life which, God created for a purpose then they deserve the same protections 4 year old children get.
Also, I’m tired of Christians saying they are pro-life but voting for Obama because they can do their own thing to stop abortion. If I give a murderer a gun knowing he is going to kill someone, how can I stand there and say I’m innocent because I didn’t actually pull the trigger? Do you really think God is that stupid? If you vote for Obama, knowing he is going to murder unborn children then you are just as guilty as he is and you can’t claim to be pro-life. Your actions determine what you are for and what you are against, you words mean nothing.
"It's really easy to drive by a blog and make vague unsubstantiated claims regarding republican policies."
• McCain voted last year to expand embryonic stem cell research.
• McCain supports partial-birth abortion in some circumstances.
You can verify both claims at OnTheIssues.org.
Nice try. McCain does not support partial birth abortion. Obama said to planned parenthood that the first thing he's going to do in office is sign the Freedom Of Choice Act which, would take away a state's right to ban abortion and allow abortions for children without parental consent. Obama also supports federally funding abortions, which means our tax dollars would be used to end children's lives. Obama supports partial birth abortion and voted against legislation that would save children who were born alive after a botched abortion. Finally, Obama would only support confirming supreme court justices that would not over turn roe v wade. There is nothing under the sun you can say about McCain that comes anywhere close to this. Comparing Obama and McCain on abortion is just ridiculous.
Okay, so how should I read McCain's YES vote on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life in March 2003? (http://ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm)
"I don't believe they should advocate abortion with my tax dollars," McCain said, adding that he opposed abortion except in cases of rape and incest. He was then asked how he would determine whether someone had in fact been raped. McCain responded, "I think that I would give the benefit of the doubt to the person who alleges that." (New York Times, p. A17 Jan 25, 2000)
If you ever reach a point where you say, "...and then you can kill the baby," you're NOT pro-life.
McCain is not pro-life. Shoot, he hasn't even been consistently "kinda" pro-life over the past 10 years!
Go ahead and compare McCain's flip-flopping on this issue with Chuck Baldwin's stance. There's no comparison.
Go ahead and vote for someone who thinks it's just to give babies a death sentence for their daddies' crimes. But don't delude yourself into thinking the person is pro-life.
Yes, I do think that there will always be abortion. Just like I think there will always be people who lie, cheat, and steal. I would hope that people will become more godly and these things will decrease, but even godly people are not perfect.
I don't think that everyone within the Church will ever agree on this topic. I enjoy reading other people's points of view. Personally, I was having trouble understanding how a Christian could vote for McCain. This blog has helped me see the other point of view. Thanks to those who responded to my post with integrity and appropriateness. I appreciate the level of respect for others.
Yes, I do think that there will always be abortion. Just like I think there will always be people who lie, cheat, and steal. I would hope that people will become more godly and these things will decrease, but even godly people are not perfect.
I don't think that everyone within the Church will ever agree on this topic. I enjoy reading other people's points of view. Personally, I was having trouble understanding how a Christian could vote for McCain. This blog has helped me see the other point of view. Thanks to those who responded to my post with integrity and appropriateness. I appreciate the level of respect for others.
Obama doesn't care two wits about the poor except as a political lie. Remember, he is postmodern and re-invents himself hourly. Anonymous states there will always be abortion, as if we shouldn't worry about it. But Jesus said we would always have the poor with us, so applying the same logic we shouldn't worry about the poor.
Marginalizing the issue of abortion, anonymous didn't address the issue of Obama's fostering the homosexual agenda and promising to eliminate the Federal Defense of Marriage Act. He thinks homosexuals should be allowed to marry.
And what about the theft from your pocket to pay of all his socialist programs?
Hmmm, it seems that by using the same logic of not voting for Obama because he is prochoice (something God is for by the way, you know the free will thing) you should vote for McCain because he is an adulterer. He cheated on his first wife, many times apparently. He married the other woman. The bible makes it pretty clear that he is still in sin. Last time I looked a sin is a sin is sin. Adam and Eve got thrown out of the garden of Eden because they ate the apple. Imagine that. It would seem that McCain did not repent of his sin, adultery. Since to repent means to turn away. He married the sin, so to speak. That would mean he is still in his sin, right? So...can't vote for him, right?
Want any salt with that camel?
Dear Randy,
Thank you so much for your blog. I have reached the same conclusion as you. I stopped you briefly at ICRS a while back and asked you if you would meet with OBAMA and talk to him about the abortion issue. I was promised meeting after meeting, which never happened. For the same reasons you stated, I desperately wanted to support OBAMA, and I did against Hillary knowing her stand on abortion and partial birth abortion. Thank the Lord she was not the candidate. But once it became clear what OBAMA'S stand on abortion was, I could no longer support him. My husband and I had supported John McCain's candidacy early on, but I was also bothered by his adultery and affairs. I was also told by people in the Bush White House that his language was offensive and his temper was hot. Then upon reading about his wife cutting her sisters out of her father's wills and canceling her sister's credit card really bothered me. "A man who does to support his family is worse than an infidel. I thought . . . family values? Give me a break! And yet when I examined McCain's life . . . his heroism, he's a wonderful father, he stood by his wife and encouraged her throughout her addiction problems, he's taken care of his former wife, her son, his step-son, is running his present's wife company. Looks like repentance to me. And then I thought of King David. He was no saint, and yet God forgave him and he went onto o great things. Also, I do not believe most people of cognizant of the taxes that are looming in an OBAMA presidency. The capital gains tax, the inheritance tax, and likely the loss of our mortgage interest deductions. These are things that are great about American and what our country was founded on. I see so many of the young Christians and your evangelist friend buying into the lie. I've had young Christian's and another Christian leader respond, "Well, we are killing children in Iraq . . . so what's the difference? It's frightening to me. Thank you for speaking up. We must pray, and trust that God will touch the hearts of the voters. Bless you for all you do! Susan Wales
God gave us 'free choice' to decide whether or not to believe in His Son. He did not give us 'free choice' to decide whether or not to murder other human beings while they are still in the womb. It is simply wrong and anyone who would try to use that excuse truely cannot know Jesus. So very sad that anyone would try to make that excuse for such an abomination.
Thank you, Mr. Alcorn for this blog. My heart cries out for the millions of innocent babies killed because they are "inconvenient." As a Christian, I believe that I must stand up for the unborn--they are made in God's image--the God that I love and serve. I also know that I will have to stand before Him someday and give an answer for what I did and didn't do. I may only be one person, but I will do what I can, and that means voting for a man that has a high regard for life. Something to ponder...Obama obviously has no regard for human life. Specifically, the unborn. However, who is to say that when I'm old, and have to have some help from the "system" to survive, he won't say that I no longer have any value, and find a way to eliminate me? Sound crazy?? Yes, but who would have ever thought when abortion was legalized, that "partial birth abortion" and "infanticide" would be in our vocabulary? A can of worms has been opened, and I can almost promise you, that the elderly and infirm will be next.
believe me that one day, cost vs benefit will be used to deliver or deny medical care. Today I read about a German doctor who wanted to immigrate permanently to Australia and was denied because his son is 'downs syndrome'. This child appears to be between 8-10 years old, looks very healthy and happy but the government said they denied this doctors immigration approval because they thought that this downs syndrome child 'might' need too much medical care in the future and that the cost of caring for him might be too expensive. Now Australia has a huge shortage of Doctors but still they denied this family because this child was not perfect in their eyes and might need help from the system, in the future. Who knows, maybe he would never need help too.
In the future, I can see this very issue being used to 'force' women to abort their downs syndrome children or face being refused medical care for said child in the future. Women who are not educated enough with a career to support themselves will be easily swayed into aborting their children, especially if suspected of having a 'defect'. The truely sad part is that many many women are told that they 'may' have a downs syndrome baby when they do the AFP blood test during the 4th month of pregnancy, having to wait for usually about 2 weeks or longer for results and then aborting nearly a 5 month fetus.. and many times the AFP test is wrong, there are many reasons to have a positive test so many perfectly healthy babies might be aborted due to a faulty test. The whole thing is a very slippery slope,, and you're right Traci, the infirm and elderly will be next. They will simply offer to 'terminate' life or deny further medical care.
Its so very sad that we've sunk to the level of devaluing human life like this, but what else could we expect from a world who denies the existance of God and want to remove him from every part of our life?
Hi Randy,
Wanted to let you know that I too considered voting for Obama this year, but that your straightforward presentation of this issue, and where the candidates stand was a big part in changing my mind. Now I just wish I had been reading your blog earlier so I could have made up my mind earlier and been a better voice for the unborn.
So many of us would have liked to see a black president get in -- but color doesn't matter when it comes to principle. But why not be COOL? Don't vote for Republican or Democrat...make your voice heard, encourage people to vote for the Constitution Party -- for Chuck Baldwin. Aren't you tired of the same old, same old? If all christians would vote their conscience instead of playing a chess we might be able to see God move in a mighty way. Are we voting out of fear or out of faith?
I am now dioscovering Obama was an all-out defender of abortion! (Just for the record I am not a U.S voter)(I really disagree with the use of the word/term "American".I am Souhtamerican and we're still in the same continent!!! You know there are three parts of it, South America, Central America and North America, so we're all brohters !!!) I was extremely disappointed as you said, beyond words. He's something special, he reminds me of M.L.King and other leaders who wanted peace (such as A.Lincoln and J.F.Kennedy). Regretably they had a sad end. I hope this is not the destiny for Obamam too.
It is so sad that he's pro Abortion, I'm broken hearted :O(.
Still, I wish he would reconsider and that he can do some good with the power he was just given. So help him God. After all, nobody's perfect...
This is going down exactly how many of us expected. Donald Miller and others were naive to expect that all the rhetoric from the Obama supporters about reducing abortions would actually result in actions taken that will result in reduced abortions. As Francis Beckwith has pointed out, don't listen to what he is saying in campaign claims, look at his past behavior. He has proven himself to be a staunch advocate of abortion. Tragically, his policies will result in more, not less, abortions.
And now evidence is coming out that things were being manipulated behind the scenes to make their "less abortion claims" seem more credible:
http://www.moralaccountability.com/obama-on-abortion/holding-catholics-in-alliance-for-the-common-good-morally-accountable/#more-268
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